Agenda and minutes

Apologies for absence were received by Councillors Conor McGrath, Andy McGuinness, Claire Parris, Ellie Plater and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage, OBE.

Councillor Anne Wells substituted for Councillor Claire Parris, and Councillor Forhad Chowdhury substituted for Councillor Conor McGrath.

There were no declarations of interest.

To approve as a correct record the minutes of the meeting held on Monday 4 September 2023.

It was RESOLVED: That the Minutes of the Meeting of the Committee held on 4 September 2023 be approved as a true record of the proceedings and be signed by the Chair.

A Member commented on the nudges that were done to stop car drivers moving round freely as this also had an impact on the bus services as well as cars. Buses needed to get round in certain times so this affected traffic flow. The Scrutiny Officer advised that the unintended consequences of this would be picked up and has been noted in the review.

Members are invited to receive the written response from Herts Vision Loss client base and the Stevenage Irish Network’s older members regarding bus use in Stevenage and interview representatives from both organisations.

The Chair welcomed Alison MacDougall, trustee for Herts Vision Loss, and Lorna Whitaker, Herts Vision Loss service user and a local resident with lived experience, to the Committee.

The Chair asked whether they were able to use the service easily. Ms Whitaker informed Members that there was nothing visually that could tell another person they were partially sighted, therefore this contributed to the problem of using buses. She explained that the information boards were difficult to use, and it would be useful if they were a darker blue so the writing was bolder and brighter, and if they could be lower as they were too high up. When buses came unexpectedly into other bays there was no way of knowing without reading the information boards quickly, which was often difficult for those with vision loss.

The Chair asked whether all the screens should be lowered. Ms Whitaker advised that people with vision loss wanted to travel comfortably and independently. There were individual screens for each bay so all screens should be lowered so they could see the information quicker. There was also signs high above the doors that would be missed by people with vision loss.

Ms MacDougall informed the Committee of a sight loss council which partnered so far with 18 Councils such as Bedfordshire and Essex but there was not one in Hertfordshire yet. The sight loss council in London was currently working with TfL and was implementing audio announcement buttons for bus arrival times and display screens which provided clearer information. The Scrutiny Officer advised that the Committee heard from the County Officers that this would be implemented soon, and Arriva confirmed all buses would be retrofitted.

The Chair asked whether Ms Whitaker felt she could get onto buses safely. Ms Whitaker advised that the colour of the buses was difficult for people with vision loss as pale green or pale blue buses blended into the surroundings and was almost invisible. She suggested that it would help if buses contrasted with their environment, so they were easier to spot. She also expressed issues with not being able to see the display on the front of the bus and advised that LED displays were much easier to see. Ms MacDougall advised that there was a slight delay as people with vision loss needed to see which stop they were at before alighting and often didn’t know.

The Chair asked whether the buses were regular and reliable. Ms Whitaker advised that there was a period where they were unreliable but now the issue was whether they were just late or if they were cancelled. The information at bus stops only displayed which order the buses would come in, no real time information as to what time it would come if it was late or if it was cancelled. She suggested that real time information would be helpful. Many people with vision loss relied on public transport and needed access to reliable bus services to get to work or hospital  ...  view the full minutes text for item 3.

To interview the Executive Portfolio Holder for Economy & Transport regarding SBC holding HCC and the bus operator service providers to account.

The Chair welcomed Councillor Lloyd Briscoe, Executive Portfolio Holder for Economy & Transport, to the Committee.

The Chair asked for Cllr Briscoe’s view on Arriva pulling out of the ZEBRA scheme. Cllr Briscoe advised that it happened last March, and he had been having conversations with County Councillor Phil Bibby as the lead for transport at HCC. The same issue had happened in Milton Keynes. He explained that SBC were upset that they were losing the electric buses as it was also about the carbon emissions. He raised issues with Arriva’s comment that there was a reduced customer demand post pandemic as the reason for pulling out the scheme and that private operators were not accountable to democratic services. He explained there was a new scheme called ZEBRA2 which HCC are applying to for funding, but this wouldn’t come to Stevenage due to Arriva and HCC nominating another service provider.

The Chair asked whether there was a way to encourage the County Council into awarding the scheme to Stevenage, and whether there was opportunity to regularly discuss bus services with HCC and Arriva. Cllr Briscoe advised that there was a bus service improvement plan on the HCC website, and this was a positive move. It was his opinion that the bus operators were there to provide a service to residents, not to just make profit, and believed that private suppliers weren’t meeting customer demand for buses.

A Member agreed that Arriva had broken the understanding about electric buses which SBC had put a lot of work into and asked how much it cost SBC and HCC to prepare. The Assistant Director (Planning & Regulatory) advised that it cost SBC Officers time. HCC had consultations so they would’ve paid extra for that.

Another Member asked whether there were any timeframes, whether there was a demand for the service and whether this changed depending on different times of the day. The Assistant Director (Planning & Regulatory) advised that Arriva hadn’t said anything about shifting the buses they used. Buses being smaller would be more economical and efficient but still required drivers and was a capital expense. Cllr Briscoe advised that the Baroness Taylor spoke about the ZEBRA scheme in Stevenage in the House of Lords and described a cyclical issue with people believing the service was unreliable so not using it, but Arriva could not invest as they were concerned about lack of use so didn’t provide the service.

The Chair raised issues around the connectivity of the bus stations and to the town centre and asked whether this would be improved with the Stevenage Regeneration. The Assistant Director (Planning & Regulatory) advised that there was an immediate improvement to the signage, drop kerbs, and easier routes which was worked on by the regen and engineering teams. The new civic hub and town square would create easier access routes when completed. There was also an ongoing discussion with Age UK to support shop mobility. The shop in the bus station was originally intended for them but  ...  view the full minutes text for item 4.

Interview with the Planning Policy and Climate Change Officers regarding related issues with sustainable bus travel.

The Chair welcomed Zayd Al-Jawad, Assistant Director (Planning & Regulatory), and Fabian Oyarzun, Head of Climate Action, to the Committee.

The Chair asked how much awareness was there around climate issues. The Assistant Director (Planning & Regulatory) advised that from a climate perspective, the main goal was to achieve modal shift rather than making existing journeys have a lower carbon footprint.

The Head of Climate Action informed Members that when it came to the sustainability of services they considered 3 types of sustainability – financial sustainability, social sustainability, and environmental sustainability.

The buses in Stevenage represent 1.9% of the territorial emissions, and less than 5% of the transport emissions. He believed that buses weren’t reaching the audience they could, and this was the base of the demand problem as they weren’t providing services for everyone, or they weren’t engaging with all the users they could.

Stevenage was currently below the UK emission limits for air quality but was still above UN limits. The initiative that should be promoted was to be technologically neutral and exploring different technologies such as hydrogen to look at zero or low/ultra-low emissions. 95% of local emissions were from private cars so they needed to explore ways to make people use buses more and how to make those buses more efficient.

A Member stated that 80% of hydrogen extracted for transport had its own carbon emissions. The Head of Climate Action advised that decisions hadn’t been made in central government around the use of hydrogen emissions and suggested this could be 2025 or later. The hydrogen used came from fossil fuels and was transformed into blue hydrogen by capturing and storing the CO2, but this was not market ready yet. Green hydrogen used water to capture the CO2 but was more expensive due to the technology involved. He suggested that new technologies could be made cheaper and more efficient soon.

The Chair thanked the Assistant Director (Planning & Regulatory) and the Head of Climate Action for their contribution to the meeting.

To consider the updated mapping document dated 10 October 2023 and to receive the notes of the Member site visit to the Potters Bar Metroline Bus Garage to see TFL electric buses and interview the Garage Manager.

The Chair expressed that the Potters Bar site visit was very helpful in having conversation around the use of electric vehicles, understanding how viable electric buses could be, and how the technology was changing.

Members discussed how interesting they found the visit and how honest the conversations they had were. They described how heavy the buses were due to the batteries and how the batteries were affected by extreme temperatures. The Chair hoped that third generation buses would be more commercially viable.

The Scrutiny Officer added that there was an annual report going to the Executive Committee in October looking at the use of biofuels. The Stevenage fleet was something that was being actively considered for this. Biofuels produced 90% less CO2 than diesel, and although it was not perfect it could be used as a transitional technology. Additionally, biofuels could be used in diesel vehicles so no adaptions to the fleet would have to be made as the vehicles were more reliable and cheaper than electric.

The Chair thanked the Committee for their time on the topic of buses and concluded the bus scrutiny.

It was RESOLVED: That the Committee noted the updated mapping document for the bus scrutiny review.

To consider any Part 1 business accepted by the Chair as urgent.

There was none.

To consider the following motions –

1.  That under Section 100(A) of the Local Government Act 1972, the press and public be excluded from the meeting for the following items of business on the grounds that they involve the likely disclosure of exempt information as described in paragraphs1 – 7 of Part 1 of Schedule 12A of the Act as amended by Local Government (Access to Information) (Variation) Order 2006.

2.  That Members consider the reasons for the following reports being in Part II and determine whether or not maintaining the exemption from disclosure of the information contained therein outweighs the public interest in disclosure.

Not required.

To consider any Part II business accepted by the Chair as urgent.

There was none.