Location: Council Chamber, Daneshill House, Danestrete, SG1
Present: H.C.L. Tessier (Chair), C. Latif (Vice-Chair), P.D. Kissane, J. Lloyd and J.A. Pickersgill. Prabhjit Sobti - Principal Solicitor, Stevenage Borough Council Sue Hirst - Committee Clerk, Stevenage Borough Council
Others: Mr. D. Stott - Brignalls Balderston Warren, Solicitor Mr. Ragesh Thakrar - Licensee, Cobarna Mr. Paul Foggin - Licensee, Cobarna Mr. Kumar Thakrar - Head Barman, Cobarna Counsel for Police - Peter Miller Mr. John Walsh - Legal Services, Hertfordshire Police Gill Akroyd - Community Unit Manager, Hertfordshire Police Inspector Dean Patient - Hertfordshire Police Sgt. Graham Storey - Hertfordshire Police
Duration:
Start Time: 10.00am
End Time: 2.10pm
Status: Noted
Business: Apologies for absence were submitted on behalf of Councillors D.W. Cullen, CC, B. Jackson, T.G.M. Kent, CC, L. Knight, M. Notley, M. Patston, Mrs. L.G. Strange and P. Stuart.
There were no declarations of interest.
Decision:
Status: Noted
Business: The parties noted the procedure for the hearing which had been circulated with the Agenda papers for the meeting.
Decision:
Status: Not Agreed
Business: The Chair welcomed all parties to the hearing and introduced the Members of the Committee and officers in attendance.
The Clerk introduced the applicants and their agent as well as the objectors (the Police) at the hearing.
The Licensing Officer stated that the application to be considered was for the conversion of a premises licence under Schedule 8 of the Licensing Act 2003 in respect of the Cobarna, The Plaza, Stevenage.
The Licensing Officer referred to the Cobarna's existing licence in her report and drew attention to the representations made by Hertfordshire Police against the application for conversion.
The Licensing Officer reminded the Committee that they must either reject the conversion application if it was considered necessary for the promotion of the crime prevention objective or grant the conversion. There was no mechanism to grant the conversion with conditions.
The Chair then invited the Police to address the Committee. Counsel for the Police advised that there was considered to be a material change in circumstances at the Cobarna since the existing licences had been transferred on 11th January 2005. He referred to the Statement of Facts prepared by Inspector Dean Patient which had been circulated and drew attention to various incidents which had occurred and had been listed on the statement. He highlighted the number of incidents which had involved under-age drinkers on the premises, and he drew Members' attention to paragraph 37 which demonstrated the type of co-operation that existed between the Police and the Licensees. Counsel also referred to paragraph 64 which related to door staff being unregistered and to the lack of female door staff to facilitate the searching of female customers.
In conclusion, Counsel read out the last two paragraphs in Inspector Patient's Statement, namely:
'Officers from Hertfordshire Constabulary have attempted to encourage the management and staff at Cobarnas to work with them to deal with the issues of disorder at the premises over a long period but with little lasting effect. It would appear that a culture has evolved around this premise that attract underage drinking and violence at intolerable levels.
This culture appears not to concern the present Licensee and Management who have actively obstructed Police and prevented the arrest of offenders. As such, revocation of their present licence would appear necessary to protect the public from further harm and to achieve targets set for the reduction in levels of crime and disorder. This action is not taken lightly and indeed is the only licensed premises within Stevenage that is deemed so poor as to require revocation'.
The Committee had no questions of the Police at this stage. The applicants' agent was then invited to ask questions of the Police.
The applicants' agent asked if the Police would provide comparison figures for incidents at the Leisure Park and the High Street in the Old Town. He was informed that the Police's concern was that there had been material change in the circumstances of this public house since the management structure had changed at Cobarna and they were concerned about the level, type and seriousness of crime since that change.
The applicants' agent gave figures relating to the number of incidents which had occurred in both 2004 and 2005, which he considered gave an indication that the change in management had not resulted in an increased number of incidents. The Police replied that their issue was that there had been serious incidents of crime in 2005 concerning young people which were not promoting the crime and safety objective of the Licensing Act 2003.
With regard to co-operation with the Police, the applicants' agent informed the Commitee that the Cobarna Licensees were members of Pub Watch, and they had requested radio communication between their premises and the Council's CCTV surveillance office to secure a reduction in crime and disorder.
The agent then referred to the meeting held with the Police in May 2005 and asked the Police to confirm that they had been given an assurance that improvements would be made. The Police confirmed that this was the case but that incidents continued to occur after the meeting.
With the approval of the Police, warning notices with regard to under age drinking taken from the Cobarna were circulated to the Committe.
The agent expressed disapproval of the inclusion of paragraph 40 in the Statement of Facts. With regard to paragraph 45, he informed the Committee that Cobarna was not open on that evening and that the incident should not be attributed to those premises. The agent added that Paragraph 47 referred to an incident in the vicinity of Cobarna and he drew attention to the fact that there were 3 other licensed premises in The Plaza. The Police replied that, in the latter case, the caller had stated that he had 'just been assaulted by a bouncer from Cobarna'. The agent asked whether the Police took account of annonymous calls and he was informed that, from a safety point of view, the Police would respond to such calls.
The Chair then invited the applicants' agent to address the Committee and the agent called one of the Licensees as a witness. The Licensee confirmed that he had purchased Cobarna in December 2004.
The Licensee then explained his attitude to co-operating with the Police. He was under the impression that he would only hear from the Police if he was doing something wrong. He had been told that under age drinking was an issue and he had put procedures in place to make improvements. He listed the measures which had been taken to this effect, including the employment of a female employee to carry out searches and the erection of notices which had been circulated to the Committee. He queried why the Police had not done a raid/ID check as was done in other areas if they were concerned about underage drinking on the premises.
The Licensee pointed out that, on the former Licensing Officer's advice, he had cancelled Under 18's nights at Cobarna as soon as he had taken over.
The Licensee drew the Committee's attention to the incident referred to in paragraph 50 of the Police's Statement of Facts which had involved the doorman from Cobarna helping the Manager of Yates' Wine Bar.
The Licensee then requested permission to circulate data relating to incidents in the whole of Stevenage. Counsel for the Police did not agree to the circulation of this information on the objection of the Police Authority as the latter had not received it earlier.
However, the Committee allowed the applicant to provide the above information orally. The Licensee proceeded to inform the Committee of the content and it transpired that the data being referred to corresponded to a different time period to that being used by the Police.
The Licensees continued his presentation by giving figures to demonstrate that the number of incidents at Cobarna had decreased since he had taken over. He referred to measures he had taken to improve Cobarna, and mentioned that 44,510 people had been entertained there in the previous 37 weeks. He had just under 30 employees and proposed opening a restaurant and a cocktail bar there after a refurbishment programme in January 2006. He had increased prices and there was no free entry at the door unless with a flyer. A floor manager and two supervisors patrolled the premises each evening. Drinks were served either in plastic glasses or bottles, the latter of which were collected as quickly as possible. Two additional glass collectors had been employed to pick up bottles.
The Licensee explained that the 2 members of door staff referred to in paragraph 64 of the Police's Statement of Facts had applied for their badges but there had been a massive backlog of applications at the Security Industry Authority. Cobarna had understood from Pub Watch that applicants being processed were allowed to continue working.
With regard to Paragraph 37 of the Police's Statement of Facts, the Licensee confirmed that it was his brother to whom Inspector Wheatley had spoken initially. The Licensee had been upstairs in the cash office and when he came downstairs Inspector Wheatley had disappeared. The Licensee pointed out that he knew the assailant in the case and he had taken him into a backroom of Cobarna so that he could clean up. He confirmed that all culprits who had been held at Cobarna had been handed over to the Police.
In regard to Pargarph 65, the Licensee suggested the Police should check the Council's CCTV footage. The Licensee agreed that he and his staff walked up and down The Plaza to see what was happening and to look for customers.
The meeting adjourned at 12.10pm and reconvened at 12.25pm.
The Licensee reiterated that he would do everything in his power to obtain a good reputation in Stevenage.
The Chair then invited the Committee to question the applicants' agent and the Licensees.
In reply to a question from the Vice-Chair, the General Manager (Co-Licensee), of Cobarna confirmed that he had been in post since the opening of Cobarna and that more procedures had been put in place by his current employer than previously.
The Chair invited the Police to question the applicants' agent and the Licensees.
In reply to their first two questions, the Licensee confirmed that he kept an incident book and that 60% of the clientele were over 21. When asked why more stringent steps were not taken to enforce ID checks, the Licensee stated that improvements had been made. The Police pointed out that an 'Over 21' limit had been suggested at their meeting in May 2005.
The Police then questioned the Licensee regarding Paragraph 37 of the Statement of Facts and he was asked whether he had instructed staff to inform him when Police entered the premises. The Licensee confirmed that this should have been the procedure but there had been a commotion, and he had waited for Inspector Wheatley to return.
The Police were then invited to sum up their representation. Counsel stated that the level of crime at Cobarna since January 2005 was unacceptable, there was concern relating to under-age drinking, Cobarna was not regarded as a safe place, and the management had not helped the Police.
The applicants' agent was then invited to sum up. He pointed out that, although the Police had said there was a material change in circumstances since January 2005, there had been a decrease in the number of incidents. With regard to the Police's allegation that management had been hostile, the Licensee had put procedures in place following the meeting in May 2005, and the agent referred to figures which demonstrated that these new procedures had worked. The applicants' agent informed the Committee that the Licensee's attitude was not the one portrayed by the Police, and the agent suggested that the incident figures put forward by the Police were not significant for a club of this kind. The agent maintained that the Police were putting forward a version of an intolerable problem, which was in fact no larger than that experienced at the Leisure Park or the Old Town.
The meeting adjourned at 12.50pm and reconvened at 2.00pm.
Decision: After taking into consideration all the evidence presented by the applicant and objectors, on the balance of probabilities and in the light of the prevention of Crime & Disorder Objective set out in the Licensing Act 2003, the Committee RESOLVED:
'That the application made by Omega Entertainment Co. (UK) Ltd. under Schedule 8 of the Licensing Act 2003 to convert the premises licence for the Cobarna, The Plaza, Stevenage be refused'.
Reason for Decision: The Committee believes that there has been a material change in the circumstances of the premises since the last renewal of the said licence on 11th January 2005, and in that it is necessary to refuse to convert this licence for the promotion of the crime and disorder objective.
Before closing the hearing, the Chair reminded all parties of their right to appeal to the Magistrates' Court should they be aggrieved with any part of the above decision.